"Every Sunday the bloggers participating in that week's Salon get together--at their separate desks, in their own particular time zones--and read. And blog about their reading. And comment on one another's blogs. Think of it as an informal, weekly, mini read-a-thon, an excuse to put aside one's earthly responsibilities and fall into a good book."My topic for this week is: Books that Reference Books
I recently finished Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey which, as many of you know, revolves around a central character with a passion for Gothic novels who allows her imagination to apply aspects of her Gothic reading to her own life. And so readers get direct and indirect allusions to a plethora of real Gothic novels including The Mysteries of Udolpho and The Italian by Ann Radcliffe, The Monk by Matthew Gregory Lewis, Camilla by Francis Burney, Belinda by Maria Edgeworth, Midnight Bell by Francis Lathom, and the list goes on. I found myself making a note in the nook every time a book was referenced as a sort of list to read later (as if I need any more on my wish list!).
After finishing Northanger Abbey, I picked up Among Others by Jo Walton, which - based on what I've read so far - is about a young girl, Mori, who possesses magical abilities as does her mother who I believe is not using them so much for good. I'll give you more details after finishing the book; you know me, I didn't really read any summaries or back covers or anything before reading because I like to be surprised. For our purposes here, the point is that the lead character is an avid read of science fiction and mentions a gigantic list of books, once again adding to my wish list.
I found it funny and possibly serendipitous that I'm reading books back to back with so many references to other books, and it got me thinking. How would my reading experience change had I read these books being alluded to? Neither Northanger Abbey nor Among Others requires you to read these books; the stories are perfectly followable and understandable without any working knowledge of the books being referenced. But I can't help but feeling like I should have read these books first; it's part of my whole OCD thing about reading in order. Plus, it would add a deeper layer to my reading I'm sure, and you get that whole "feeling smart" rush when you are in on the joke. Like getting all the references in The Simpsons.
How do you guys feel about books alluding to books? Does it make you want to run out and read those books? Do you feel like you are missing out on something when you haven't read the referenced book?
I've done this with history books before. One book makes reference to another, so I read that one, etc. It can be fun. With fiction, I don't do it as often, but I have done it.
ReplyDeleteI've never found that I had to have read the one book in order to appreciate the other. I think that would be a mark of bad writing, actually. But there have been times when having read the book being referenced did add to my enjoyment/understanding.
Read The Monk, by the way. It's a blast!
I LOVE IT!!!! My favorite term to introduce in my Intro to Lit classes is "intertexuality." Aaaahhhh! Whether it's overt or hidden, references to other works are my FAVE.
ReplyDeleteJames - The Monk is actually the one I've read! :) And you are so right; it was a great read!
ReplyDeleteAndi - LOL! I love intertextuality!
I love it when books reference other books. One of the things I thought was great about Among Others was that the main character is a bookworm AND we know the titles of everything she reads. That's weirdly rare, given the vast universe of books with bookworm heroes/heroines.
ReplyDeleteDid you go out and read any of the books she mentions? Just curious. I keep adding to my to-read list. ;)
DeleteI adore books that talk about books. I really should start to keep track of such things. It makes me feel smart when I've read the ones they reference, but don't think to write down the ones I haven't.
ReplyDeleteI've added way too many books to my list from these two, so I don't think I'd recommend keeping track of the ones you haven't read. :)
DeleteI really enjoyed Among Others as it made me reflect on my own reading quite a bit. I used to be a huge SF fan when I was younger and it made me realize how far from the genre I have fallen, so to speak, and I need to read a lot more of that genre again. And yes, I did make a running list but I do that with any book that makes reference to other novels, it's just the OCD part of me when it comes to reading. I have been doing it all my life, so why change now?
ReplyDeleteThat must be one seriously long list!
DeleteWhen a book references another book, it actually does make me want to read the books referenced, and lots of time, I make lists of things when this happens. I haven't had much success with actually reading those referenced books, but I do make the lists, and that is half the battle!
ReplyDeleteMaking lists of books is almost as much fun as actually reading books. :)
DeleteI've recently become interested in reading The Heroine's Bookshelf but have the same feeling--is it better to read all of the books first or read them later? I also had this when I read Reading Lolita in Tehran. I started it once and put it back down until I had read Lolita (though not for that reason). I found I had much more appreciation, BUT there were other parts of the book that referenced books I haven't read and I didn't feel like I needed to read them. Ha! Not sure this comment makes sense other than to say--I don't know!!!
ReplyDeleteBut...I do think it's one of those things that when you discover a book, you see it referenced all over the place! It's not that it wasn't referenced before, you just didn't know what you were missing. Ok...need more coffee. ;)
I always feel a rush when I've read a book mentioned in the book I'm reading. But, more often, I haven't read the books mentioned. I always write down those books and often look them to find out what they're about. I always think I'll read the referenced books but so far, that hasn't happened...one of these days I will. I still have Northanger Abbey to read. Maybe I'll follow that book with reding the books referenced in the narrative!
ReplyDeleteGreat post!
Northanger Abbey definitely listed some intriguing books.
DeleteI love books that allude to books! The last one that I can remember that did this a lot was To Say Nothing of the Dog, which alluded to Three Men in a Boat (to say nothing of the dog). It also alluded a lot to Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane, but I am staunchly in the anti-Peter Wimsey camp and don't know if I'll ever get to the book in which he and Harriet meet and fall in love and he stops being such a jerk.
ReplyDeleteI'm so ignorant I don't know anything about Wimsey and Vane. :)
Deletenice one it is very helpful to usleo
ReplyDeleteI love intertextual references too. And of course, very often I go on to read the books references. It's a great source of recommendations!
ReplyDelete(Oh Aarti. You love breaking my heart with anti-Peter comments all over the blogosphere, don't you? ;) )
Okay, so I definitely need to get up on this Wimsey business...
DeleteI love when books I am reading mention other books...it just adds to my already crazy wishlist :) I actually have both of the books you mentioned on my wishlist. I'm hoping that this year I will be able to find the time to read both. Great post!
ReplyDeleteDespite the fact I am not done with Among Others, I can easily say that both it and Northanger Abbey are definitely worth reading!
DeleteWhen I read Among Others, I felt like my inadequacy was constantly being drummed into me by the author, for not having read those books! :--) So I would definitely put myself into the camp of yes, it makes me feel like reading the other books!
ReplyDeleteLOL! I felt like that in the beginning since I love SFF so much but hadn't read half of what she's mentioning.
DeleteTrish - It's funny you mention Reading Lolita in Tehran since that's one I've been putting off until I read Lolita! And I don't know why I couldn't just reply to your post. :)
ReplyDeleteOh, definitely! I always feel like I'm missing something if I haven't read the book. And when I have it's so awesome that by contrast NOT having read the books is just depressing!
ReplyDeleteI seem to feel that way about half the time. Must be a mood thing - or maybe it's the talent of the author making you wish you had read the books or just want to read the books....
DeleteFor some books, I feel like it helps to have read the book if it is key to knowing the plot (like Rebecca Stead's When You Reach Me). Otherwise, I don't really "take the bait." You can go mad doing that!
ReplyDeleteThe trick is knowing when you need to have read the original (or the referenced books)...and I'm clearly not good at that since I know so very little about a book going into it. I've actually read "reimaginings" without reading the original because I didn't know the book was based on another book!
DeleteI absolutely love books that mention other books! If I have read them, I get that little "zing" of serendipity: "I know what they're talking about!" If I haven't read them, I look into them to see if I should. :)
ReplyDeleteI love that "zing" as you say!
DeleteI do love books that allude to books. I especially love it when I know the book mentioned. In the book Domestic Violets, for example, the narrator makes a passing reference to a picture book about a penguin and I practically shouted, "OH MY GOD!!! I KNOW WHAT BOOK HE'S TALKING ABOUT!!! I LOVE THAT BOOK!!!" It was ridiculous, really.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it does make me want to rush out and read the book. One of my Reading Plans is to read (or reread) all the books in mentioned in Reading Lolita in Tehran and then reread Reading Lolita in Tehran. (This has been a Reading Plan for a while now. Maybe some day I'll get to it.)
Ahhh, books mentioning books. Good, nerdy fun :)
I've thought about doing that with Reading Lolita as well. I refuse to read it until I read Lolita, but now I know there are a ton of other books mentioned!
DeleteI'm in Jenners' camp...I'd go mad if I I tried to keep a list, let alone read all the books!
ReplyDeleteAnd intertextuality? Wow...who knew there was a word for it?
It's a seriously great word, isn't it?
DeleteDepends on the novel. You know I read Udolpho because of NA, and now I need to re-read NA, because of Udolpho. I don't think we need to read those novels first, or all of them, but maybe a few and then re-read where we heard them. I felt this way with the Thirteenth Tale by Settlefield. She mentioned so many books, it was hard and ridiculous to keep track. If anything, it reminds how wonderful older books are.
ReplyDeleteI do remember that about Thirteenth Tale now! I haven't read that one in years.....
DeleteMy book club read Reading Lolita in Tehran a number of years ago. Some of them had read Lolita and it seemed like they got more out of the book and/or had a different experience of the book as compared to those of us who had not read Lolita. It sparked my interest in Lolita but I have to admit I still have not read it!
ReplyDeleteI need to read Lolita soon, but I've been considering going for the audio since so many people seem to love that version.
DeleteIt depends on the book, honestly. With Northanger Abbey, I didn't feel that I was missing out on much by not having read Udolpho -- for me it was enough to know that the main character's reading habits lean toward the gothic and dramatic, and that she's young enough to be dramatically affected by those books.
ReplyDeleteBut with books like Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series (Yes, I'm mentioning it again; if you want me to stop, quit posting about stuff that brings the series to mind :D), where so many books are mentioned...that was a harder series to read without feeling like I needed to read all the books to which Fforde alluded.
In general, an author doesn't mention such things without good reason. The character is reading a specific book, or the author alludes to a certain book, because it's important to the story. So you're probably always going to get a full experience if you've read the books-mentioned-in-other-books. It's a slippery slope, though, so you have to draw the line somewhere. :) Guess that's the hard part.
You just keep reminding me I need to read the whole Fforde series! :) His allusions are so much more subtle, sometimes not even mentioning the name of the book, so I can definitely see how you'd want more familiarity with them than you need with Udolpho in NA.
DeleteI love it too. It leads me to read other books. Whenever I have already read the book they refer to I feel like I'm in on something with the author.
ReplyDeleteI love being in on things like that too!
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